Dive into a candid conversation with Rev. Angela Denker exploring how our images of Jesus, shaped by culture and media, influence everyday faith, identity, and relationships.
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Discover practical wisdom for nurturing authentic spirituality at home, at church, and in daily life — plus stories of empathy, resistance, and a kinder, more inclusive community. Need new language to talk about difficult faith questions or searching for ways to live out a more compassionate Christian witness? This episode is for you.
Rev. Angela Denker is an award-winning author, ELCA Lutheran pastor, and veteran journalist. Her first book, Red State Christians, was the 2019 Silver Foreword Indies award-winner for political and social sciences. Her second book, Disciples of White Jesus: The Radicalization of American Boyhood, came out on March, 25, 2025. She is a columnist for the Minnesota Star Tribune and has written for many publications, including Sports Illustrated, the Washington Post, and FORTUNE magazine, and has appeared on CNN, BBC, SkyNews, and NPR to share her research on politics and Christian Nationalism.
Episode Notes:
Disciples of White Jesus: The Radicalization of American Boyhood is available nearly everywhere.
Angela posts regularly on Substack, including weekly updates and analysis of the news.
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This episode posted on September 3, 2025
Episode Transcript:
Ryan Dunn [00:00:01]:
Hi and welcome back to another episode of Compass. Finding Spirituality in the Everyday. My name is Ryan Dunn. I was really excited to do this interview and I'm pretty stoked to share it with you as well. I met journalist, pastor, author, Reverend Angela Denker and I got to ask her all about her latest book, which is called Disciples of White Jesus. In the course of our conversation, Angela reflected on how her work examining the intersections of faith and masculinity and Christian nationalism has really shifted in light of recent cultural and political changes, including the subtle and not so subtle ways that media shapes our understanding of who Jesus is, especially when we filter that through the lens of race and gender. There are some deep topics in this episode, like the roots of violent masculinity in the Christian tradition and and the dangers of religious fundamentalism, both for society and for men themselves. Angela shares stories of hope, though, too hope and resistance from her own reporting and highlights when relationships, empathy and honest conversations push back against narrow stereotypes and help to nurture kinder, more inclusive communities as a parent, pastor and public theologian.
Ryan Dunn [00:01:21]:
And Angela also offers practical wisdom for cultivating a more authentic spirituality at home, in church, and in everyday life. If you appreciate conversations like this, then make sure to subscribe to Compass on YouTube or your favorite podcast listening app like Spotify or Apple Podcasts. And then if you're ready for the next step, leave a rating and or review. Just tell someone else why the conversations on Compass matter to you. Back on this episode, whether you're concerned about the influence of white Guy Jesus on your family, church or social feed, or you're just searching for ways to foster deeper presence and connection, this episode offers both a thought provoking critique and some seeds of hope for anyone navigating faith in today's world. So let's roll into it.
Ryan Dunn [00:02:13]:
Angela, thank you so much for joining us on the Compass podcast. How goes it with your soul today?
Angela Denker [00:02:20]:
My soul, I think is good. I just finished a workout right before we get jumped on here, so hopefully my heart rate's not too high.
Ryan Dunn [00:02:27]:
Excellent. Well, we want to talk about Disciples of White Jesus. And if I'm remembering correctly, the idea for the book was kind of pitched to you and you picked it up. Is that, is that true? Did I?
Angela Denker [00:02:42]:
That's right, yes.
Ryan Dunn [00:02:44]:
How when accepting the project, you probably had a certain idea about, like, what you were going to write about and what maybe even come out of it. So having gone through all these experiences, you traveled to a number of places. How did the book that you ended up publishing differ from the book that you had in mind when you set out on the project?
Angela Denker [00:03:05]:
Yeah, well, I think even more, you know, significant to the whole process, too, was that I started. So my first book, Red State Christians, came out in 2019. We did a revised version in 2022. But in between these times, I was working with my agent on a potential sort of memoir project investigating my grandpa's journey through ministry. You know, he was someone who I had sort of been ashamed of because of his perceived failures in ministry. He got divorced. He was sort of removed for congregations for being too progressive in a time of civil rights and too outspoken on racism. And that was during COVID It was a weird time in publishing, and I didn't end up doing that project.
Angela Denker [00:03:53]:
And so I think some of that work, though, was preparatory for this book, Disciples of White Jesus, because it allowed me to see through reclaiming what I. What I appreciated about my grandpa's story. His was also a different story than that traditional sort of both masculinity, but also how that masculinity functioned in the pastorate. So I think that shaped the book. You know, I think while I was writing it, I didn't know that Trump was gonna be elected again. So certainly that has affected the way that I speak about it. I didn't know that we would actually have a Secretary of defense who has crusader tattoos, which is one of the precursors for this kind of masculinity that we're investigating, the Crusades. So in some sense, you know, the book, as it was delivered, wasn't entirely different than I initially conceived of it.
Angela Denker [00:04:49]:
But the times have continued to speak to this content in a way that maybe I didn't even fully appreciate at the time.
Ryan Dunn [00:04:58]:
All right, you brought up the Crusades to tell me about that a little bit, because all the stories that you tell in the book are all contemporary. So how does the tradition of the Crusades lay into how we're thinking today about really the underlying themes of masculinity and even Christianity in today's contextual world?
Angela Denker [00:05:18]:
Yeah. I do think, funny enough, in chapter five, I do think I delve into this recaptured modern practice of medieval sort of crusader esque fighting. But, yes, the stories are up today, but they. The reason I always end up talking about the Crusades, often when I'm speaking on Christian nationalism in general or on violent masculinity, is I want people to understand that this danger of both Christian nationalism and a fundamentalist form of really highly hypergendered masculinity, the danger that it poses, we have to put it outside, I think this political partisan conversation. And so it helps people to see these precursors of. We're teaching Christian men that the way to follow Jesus is through violence, through killing and through violence that is rooted in often racial or ethnic prejudice that that goes back a very long time. And so while certainly Donald Trump, James Dobson, who recently died, you know, these contemporary figures are very important in understanding this trend. They are also heirs to a much more ancient story and a story of a battle that has raged for, for a long time within Christianity.
Angela Denker [00:06:44]:
You know, in the Roman Empire, which I talked about in the book too, is, is another important. There was in early Christianity, you know, we see this in the Apostle Paul's writings. There was this battle to what kind of Christianity would win out. Would it be a Christianity that was led with Greek philosophy or with Hebrew trad tradition? All of this plays into the richness of the religion that we have today. But it's much deeper than a conversation about Republicans and Democrats. And I think in America we can get very parochial and see things only through an American lens.
Ryan Dunn [00:07:18]:
Well, you brought up a sense of violence underplaying these ideas of masculinity that we might have which can sometimes be promoted within the church. What are some other aspects of the white guy Jesus or the white masculine Jesus?
Angela Denker [00:07:34]:
Yeah, it's really tough. I was even talking about this with my boys the other day, just with some of the content that they're being served on social media. And so much of what is being promoted to young boys today, maybe particularly young white boys on social media when it comes to faith based content is sort of, you know, no offense. Ryan, the white guy with the beard.
Ryan Dunn [00:07:57]:
Yeah, I know. I walk the stereotype. Yep. In summertime.
Angela Denker [00:08:04]:
No, it's, it's, it's. I know a lot of great white guys with beards, but this what they're. And that's honestly partly too. That's why it's so pernicious because on the surface it looks like, oh, they're just saying Jesus is great. You turn over your whole life to Jesus. But the kind of God and the kind of Jesus that's depicted on social media is a God who is for some people and against other people in a very particular way. It's not the God of the Bible where Jesus says in John 3:17, I came not to condemn the world, but to save the world. There's a universality to the kind of salvation that Jesus promises in the Bible that's not being captured on social media.
Angela Denker [00:08:44]:
And it's really, I'm for you and against other people who are somehow not like you. And this Jesus who's being depicted, again, on social media as, you know, muscular, white, blonde, you know, the body of.
Ryan Dunn [00:09:03]:
Rambo at the head of. Yeah, yeah, yes.
Angela Denker [00:09:08]:
And it's really interesting, right, to put this into content with what I'm being served on social media as a mom, you know, I'm being served the prairie dresses, the long hair extensions, the very overtly feminized vision. And so these are two sides of the same coin. And what it's. What it's leading us into is not biblical Christianity, but religious fundamentalism. And religious fundamentalism is a great way to get people to obey an authoritarian, authoritarian leader.
Ryan Dunn [00:09:44]:
All right, so if these are the predominant messages, have you begun to see some ways that we start to fight back against that narrative or to counteract that narrative? I hate using that word, fight back.
Angela Denker [00:09:56]:
But, yeah, yeah. You know, one thing. One thing that can be frustrating for people is that the solution doesn't look like the problem. So it's like, well, that's why fight.
Ryan Dunn [00:10:12]:
Back is such a poor word, right?
Angela Denker [00:10:14]:
Maybe. Yeah. I mean, I think Martin Luther King Jr. Was such a beautiful speaker on the complexity of love and the merits of nonviolence. And so I often turn to his work to see what kind of resistance is required. But I think that I remember after the presidential election last fall, a lot of Democratic leaders were saying, oh, well, we need the Joe Rogan of the left. And that in itself, you know, does there need to be appropriate way to reach out via large media outlets? And have progressive Christians in general done a much poorer job than conservatives of. Of using media? Probably.
Angela Denker [00:10:59]:
But I think ultimately the most successful ways of turning back have not to do with what people are watching online, but really have to do with people who already have established relationships with young men and boys in their lives, really has to do with older men reclaiming their own stories of masculinity? Because we all know lots of men who don't fit into this particular box, or even if they do that, that box has never felt right for them. You know, I'm a former sportswriter. I've worked with a lot of professional athletes. My dad played college football. And even for these men who maybe they are muscular, maybe they've been given this genetic makeup that makes them look like this kind of traditional masculinity fits perfectly for them, they still need to embrace empathy. They still need to know how to understand their own emotions and their own unique identities. You know, we have to just give people including men and boys, the space to be who they are. And so one of the ways that I find most powerful of pushing back is to have older men look to the younger men in their lives and to begin to tell their own stories, to form real relationships.
Angela Denker [00:12:12]:
And that's always going to be more powerful than what people see on a screen.
Ryan Dunn [00:12:16]:
Mm.
Angela Denker [00:12:16]:
It's just a matter of investing that time and making space for relationships.
Ryan Dunn [00:12:21]:
Well, in the course of writing the book, you visited a number of places and spoke with some people that are indicative of where the. The narrative went wrong to a degree. But you also uncovered some of the stories where this, this new alternative narrative was coming to light. Would you be willing to maybe share one or two of those with us for the hopeful aspect of it?
Angela Denker [00:12:44]:
Sure. Yeah. I think that I'm thinking about. There's a chapter where we're in a garage in the rural Midwest and there's a pastor who is a military veteran and had his own experiences of ptsd, of seeing friends die. And he's, you know, he can come off kind of harsh. He's a real, like, blunt spoken person. He serves as a pastor alongside his spouse. They're both pastors together, and so they, you know, complement each other in a really beautiful way in different congregations.
Angela Denker [00:13:20]:
But when they bring these kids together, it's called for confirmation. So it's mostly middle school aged kids. They're meeting in this garage on some farmland, and he's talking to them about who Jesus is, and he's asking them, who is Jesus? You know, what is Jesus skin color, what is Jesus prize? What are some attributes of who Jesus is? What does Jesus want from, you know, really getting back to that historical story of Jesus. And it was powerful to see him refuse to lift up this culturally created media Jesus and to see these kids be able to point out who Jesus was. Even if Jesus did look different from them. These kids were white, Scandinavian, German origin, Midwestern Jesus did necessarily look like them. And yet they were still able to see this is somebody that we worship, even though he doesn't look like us, and even though it might question. Cause us to question some of the assumptions that we've previously held as white Christians.
Ryan Dunn [00:14:23]:
I'd love to hear a little bit that is, you're a journalist, a pastor, also a parent, and I would love to hear a little bit about how within your own home you're promoting these counter cultural narratives of the reality of Jesus.
Angela Denker [00:14:44]:
Yeah, it happens in a lot of different ways. And it is hard in some ways because I grew up with A certain vision of what church looked like. You know, I was going to the mission trips, I was confirmed. So in the Lutheran church we have this tradition of confirmation. And I had 200 classmates who were confirmed alongside me. So I grew up in a very large church. Church. Church's role in society and even in my own family's life has shifted over the years.
Angela Denker [00:15:13]:
We've learned troubling things about the role of abuse in the church. And so at sometimes I've been more cautious to like full on put my kids into church activities because of what we've learned over the years. And at the same time, one of the most powerful things I think again is those relationships. So, you know, their relationship with their dad, my husband, the ways that he interacts with me, the ways that he, you know, and we're constantly like re navigating how do we share household responsibilities? Because in some ways, you know, I don't like to mow the lawn or shovel. He does. Like we have a traditional division of labor in some ways, but it's not because like those are the oils we have to have. We've each just been able to lean into our own strengths. And I'm always really careful when I hear these like cultural scripts that we've all been handed.
Angela Denker [00:16:11]:
You know, like sometimes my husband will couch, you know, if he gets the laundry, he's helping me, or if he gets like dinner, he's helping. And I'm like, well, let's try not to say that because it's not a personal favor to me.
Ryan Dunn [00:16:25]:
Yeah.
Angela Denker [00:16:27]:
So I think little things like that can be important also. You know, both of my kids have seen their grandpas do the laundry, mop the floor. They've seen, you know, their grandma come with them to play football, catch or basketball. And I think most importantly, they've just seen an atmosphere of mutual respect and a willingness to see where each individual is called. You know, God gives each individual strengths, vocations to live into, different commons callings. And those callings, I don't believe are limited by our gender. I think that God calls each of us into different strengths and places where God can use us. And I think that's the most important thing is listening to what God is calling you into.
Angela Denker [00:17:13]:
So I want my boys to see that too.
Ryan Dunn [00:17:15]:
And what about then within your role within the church? Are there some different things that you see happening within the church now that maybe you didn't notice when you were that 13 year old in confirmation class?
Angela Denker [00:17:28]:
Yeah, you know, one of the fun things I've done This month in August is I got a chance to reconnect with two of the pastors in my life that were really formational to me. And both of them were men leading large churches. And so especially for one of them, you know, this pastor who baptized, he was at the hospital when I was born. He, the church sort of grew with him. So when my parents started going, it was meeting in a school. Now it's this large congregation. And I think when I was growing up, I put him on a pedestal. And then as I got older and I became a pastor, I saw, oh, these are some things maybe I didn't agree with or we.
Angela Denker [00:18:07]:
And there was this opportunity in the past month for us to sort of come back together and for me to learn more of his story and where he's seen and come together more as pastoral colleagues and the same thing. I also got to reconnect with my internship pastor supervisor from Las Vegas this past month. And so getting to sort of reclaim those relationships that formed me with men who really lifted me up as a, as a woman leader and embraced my own unique gifts as both a journalist and a pastor, I think was really good for me within the church. I also really appreciate in my current congregation, I serve part time. I'm pastor of Visitation and Public Theology. We have a whole cadre of retired clergy members, men who come to our congregation and serve. They'll often preach. If we need a guest preacher, they're there to help in whatever way is needed.
Angela Denker [00:19:03]:
But mostly what I've seen is just this support for our lead pastor, who is a woman. We also have a man who serves part time as our youth and family pastor. And then me and these retired clergymen have really been a beautiful witness of support just being there in the pews, worshiping as a presence. And I think that's been a really neat thing in the congregation I serve now that I haven't seen before.
Ryan Dunn [00:19:29]:
Tell me about being a pastor of Public theology.
Angela Denker [00:19:33]:
Yeah, you know, it is truly a blessing and it's been a long time in creating. I first moved back to Minneapolis from Southern California in 2017, and I think at that point I thought, oh, I'm just going to get this part time call that fits, you know, my needs as a writer. And eight years later we finally put it together. So it took a long time, but I'm really grateful. I also, right around the same time that I was beginning my work in this new pastoral role, I was invited to become a regular columnist for the Minneapolis newspaper. And, and so that was great timing. Because people can really see in my columns, a few folks have told me, like, oh, it feels like it's a secular sermon sometimes. And people are able to see what this role looks like in a very tangible way through my work at the newspaper and through my work on substack too.
Angela Denker [00:20:27]:
So that's been a great way for people both locally and nationally to appreciate what it means to do public theology.
Ryan Dunn [00:20:35]:
And what is your concentration at the newspaper?
Angela Denker [00:20:38]:
Yeah, so it's. I do have a lot of freedom, which is wonderful. But I tend to focus on religion, politics and everyday life. I'll do sports occasionally. I just recently wrote something about the Minnesota Vikings having male cheerleaders. This year I have a column coming up about actually a woman in my congregation who died and sort of her witness to feminism as an 89 year old woman. So I, I've gotten a lot of freedom, which is fun, but really religion, politics, everyday life.
Ryan Dunn [00:21:12]:
Well, drawing us back to the idea of toxic masculinity. One of the, one of the theses or propositions that, that you offer is that toxic masculine or. Let me backtrack on that. This idea of white male masculinity is a problem. White male masculinity is also, as you note, at risk or are under some pressure, coming to grips with that has been revealing to me both as, you know, of course, as a white male, but also as somebody who interacts with other white males and wondering just, you know, how to represent grace inside of those interactions in still trying to challenge for something better or more holistic or life giving. Can you talk about that tension a little bit and maybe provide a couple attributes of, of that tension?
Angela Denker [00:22:04]:
Yeah, I think the two lines that sort of start out on the book jacket I was just going to look at, it says white boys and men are dangerous and white boys and men are struggling. And the reason I wanted to sort of begin with those dual propositions and attempt to get at both of them is that stereotypically we see, you know, so much in American media today is filtered through is this from the right or is this from the left? And all that is ridiculous. You know, it's frustrating, but at the same time you don't see a lot of overlap. So a lot of times people want to talk or are willing to discuss in more progressive spaces the problem of the violence of white men and boys. And you know, the statistic that really exemplifies that is that white men and boys are more likely than any other demographic group to be mass shooters. At the same time, if we're coming from more conservative perspective. They are much more willing to talk only about the struggles facing white men and boys. And the statistic that I think really bears that out is that white men are more likely than any other demographic group to die by suicide.
Angela Denker [00:23:12]:
So I don't think that we can address what's going on with white men and boys without looking at both of these things, without looking both at the reality of the violence that's perpetrated, unfortunately, by men and boys towards white men and boys towards others, but also looking at what's happening internally and the ways that that violence is not only directed outward, but also directed inward. And I'll say, too, I think I was somewhat purposeful throughout the book. And I try to. Certainly when I speak, I try not to say toxic masculinity, because I think because of that. That struggle piece, that internal identity piece, if you're told that you are toxic, you know, as you're forming your own identity, it is not helpful. It is. And we know that so much violence that's directed outward comes from internally, a place of angst, turmoil. It's these boys and men that don't have relationships, these boys and men that are on the outside that are looking for belonging in maybe some of these online spaces that perpetrate violence.
Angela Denker [00:24:19]:
Um, so I try. I've fallen into using more of this phrase violent masculinity, because I think the violence is right at the heart of this and Christian nationalism, which is the engine driving so much of this today, it is a religion that glorifies violence. So I think that that's really at the heart of it, rather than it being something toxic about men and boys. You know, I live with three of them. There's a lot of words I'd use to describe them, but they're not toxic.
Ryan Dunn [00:24:48]:
Sick truth. I had prepared to ask you if you had sensed that the needle had moved a little bit on our vision of masculinity. However, since you wrote the book prior to the 2024 election, and in light of that election, and even some of the stuff that's coming out now about, well, pastors passing along words about pulling back the vote for right for females and so on, we can say that, yes, maybe the. The needle has moved not in the direction that. That we would hope. So in light of that, are there areas where you are identifying a sense of progress or hope or light?
Angela Denker [00:25:32]:
You know, I think that the awareness is raising, and I think that's important. You know, my hope in writing the book was that it would be read by parents. And I think that a lot of parents in more progressive neighborhoods, states, counties, sort of thought that Trumpism and the connection of Trumpism to violent masculinity was something that happened elsewhere. And then a lot of those same parents or adults saw, oh, no, you know, our young men are really being drawn into this, particularly in affluent, well educated, progressive neighborhoods. And so part of, part of my calling in my writing work that I had in both red state Christians and disciples of white Jesus is to help people to remove the log from our own eye before removing this back from someone else's. And so to see where this phenomenon is happening in our own churches, in our own neighborhoods, and not to just point out, well, this is so bad elsewhere, because I think so much national media coverage of religious fundamentalism, of religion in general, is making it a spectacle and making it scandalous and seeing where we can find the craziest thing. And I think instead we need to understand how baked into American culture the phenomenon of white Jesus is, and how much it's holding us back as a society from forming kinder worlds and relationships. So that awareness, you know, for parents, I think is important certainly for faith leaders, for grandparents, for folks who are, and for also, you know, young white men themselves who are coming to my book events, who are starting to have their own children, their own sons, and are really hopeful to give a different example that maybe than they had from their.
Angela Denker [00:27:22]:
Their own fathers, that they want to be involved attendant parents, that they want to provide a space for their sons to be emotional, to be empathetic. I think that that is a hopeful place too, you know, young fathers, and that's a way in to beginning to fight back against this movement.
Ryan Dunn [00:27:44]:
So much of what I try to do through this podcast and other avenues is present the stories of inspirational hope, kind of where the light is shining through, to counteract those narratives that so often take off within the popular imagination about the detractive, the negative, the darkness, or the destructive. And I get a sense that in your media outlets, you're. You're going after those same stories as well, not, not the negative, but, you know, the stories of lightness and hope, where goodness is shining through. Do you have some ideas on how to uncover those stories? Like, how do you go about finding some of your stories to write about? How did you find the stories within the book where the light was shining through?
Angela Denker [00:28:27]:
Yeah, it is about listening and about being curious. And you and I both, with the work that we do, we probably do have a lot of curiosity, but I do Think that that's the beginning of finding unexpected connections and unexpected people. One of the reasons that I decided to take on this project is one of the stories from the book with Caleb Campbell, who was previously involved in a neo Nazi skinhead group, left. It became sort of a disciple of Mark Driscoll, who was one. Progenitors of a violent Jesus in the 2000 and tens. Continues to Pastor a congregation today that is steeped in violent masculinity. Trumpism. Scottsdale, Arizona and Caleb today has really disavowed that Christian nationalism as well and sees himself as a worker against Christian nationalism.
Angela Denker [00:29:21]:
He calls himself a missionary to Christian nationalists and has done so at a lot of personal risk. You know, a lot of his congregation had left, but his church continues to go on and do good work. So it is that. And I met Caleb just in a podcast we were doing together and started to hear more of his story. And that led to a friendship and an opportunity to tell his story. And now I think his story has been on cnn. It's kind of been out in the world. But those relationships begin with listening, asking questions, and being open to God's surprises in the people we meet.
Ryan Dunn [00:29:58]:
Are there some practices that you incorporate in your own life, either personally or through the rhythm of the faith community that help you get a sense of surprising from God or at least lets you feel a sense of the spirit moving?
Angela Denker [00:30:15]:
Yeah, I think cultivating an ability to really be present in the moment is really important, especially we have so many distractions. Right. Available at our fingertips at all times. But when I go into a pastoral care visit, when I go into our monthly worship service at a senior living center, when I go into Sunday worship, and when I'm spending time with my kids, it is those practices of just kind of turning off everything else that's going on and being present in that moment that allows you to make those connections, to ask those questions, to be surprised. And it's certainly something that people who are present with one another are not profitable for technology barons, we're not profitable for Jeff Bezos, we're not. So, like, there's a big financial motive in us not being present with one another. So there's a lot of. You have to be attentive and work against it.
Angela Denker [00:31:15]:
And being present in prayer, too, I think is important as well.
Ryan Dunn [00:31:19]:
I love that idea that what ways to fight against the empire is just by being present with one another.
Angela Denker [00:31:26]:
That's right.
Ryan Dunn [00:31:27]:
Hallelujah. What are you dreaming of doing next?
Angela Denker [00:31:33]:
Yeah, I'm considering maybe doing a fiction project a novel project, but I have some ideas, but hasn't really gotten off the ground. I'm also interested in. I love telling people's stories, so I'm interested in maybe some kind of biographical book, maybe a book that I would write with someone else about their story. I'm kind of interested in something like that next. So those are kind of the two major things. Another thing I've been playing around with a little bit is sort of I've written Disciples of White Jesus. What is the corollary story for women about the cultural depiction of Christian, you know, I mean, Beth Ellison Barr has done some great work in that space, certainly. And I think Christian demay has a book, Live Laugh Love, I think, coming out soon.
Angela Denker [00:32:25]:
But I'm interested in maybe something along like the tradwife sort of aesthetic vision of white Christian womanhood, especially as it overlaps with Influencers Online Motherhood. Joe Piazza does great work on this. She's kind of my online guru in that space. But yeah, I don't know. That's the other thing I've been kind of noodling around a little bit.
Ryan Dunn [00:32:51]:
Yeah, right, cool. When you do go for that, we'll have you back on the podcast just to amplify those voices.
Ryan Dunn [00:32:59]:
We talked about how we need to.
Ryan Dunn [00:33:01]:
Not necessarily try to replicate Joe Rogan, but to offer the alternative idea that is out there and that there's value in it.
Angela Denker [00:33:10]:
That's right.
Ryan Dunn [00:33:10]:
Well, Reverend Angela, thank you so much for joining us on Compass for taking time to explore a little bit more deeply some of the ideas that we're coming across.
Ryan Dunn [00:33:19]:
And.
Angela Denker [00:33:24]:
Thanks so much for having me. Ryan.
Ryan Dunn [00:33:25]:
That's it for this episode of compass, Finding Spirituality in the Everyday. A huge thank you to Reverend Angela Denker for sharing her insights, stories and wisdom with us. If you want to dig deeper into any of the topics that we've discussed, well, be sure to visit our [email protected] Compass there you'll find detailed episodes notes, plus a full library of our past episodes to keep you inspired. We're grateful, of course, to the team at United Methodist Communications for making this podcast possible. And of course, if you haven't already, please take a moment to subscribe to Compass on your favorite podcast platform. Ratings and reviews help others discover the stories of hope and inspiration we'd love to share on this podcast. Thanks for for joining with us today again. My name is Ryan Nunn.
Ryan Dunn [00:34:15]:
Look forward to chatting at you again in two weeks time.
Ryan Dunn [00:34:18]:
Peace.
