Rev. Roger Ross explores breaking through spiritual walls, authentic discipleship, and building real faith community.
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Reverend Roger Ross unpacks what it means to move from being a “kinda Christian” to a committed disciple. Through this episode of Compass, we explore the difference between just being a church member and living as a true follower of Jesus, and learn practical steps to deepen your spiritual journey, especially when you hit those invisible “spiritual walls.”
About our guest:
Reverend Roger Ross is a pastor, church planter, and founder of The Humility Group. His book, Kinda Christian: From Curious to Serious about Jesus, guides seekers and seasoned believers alike toward a deeper life with God. Roger’s broad experience in local churches—from Texas to the British island of Guernsey—fuels his passion for spiritual growth, genuine faith, and community transformation.
Episode Notes:
In this episode:
(00:00) Breaking Through Spiritual Walls
(05:19) Defining discipleship in action
(09:13) More than sin management
(11:50) Following in the early church
(13:46) Identifying our blind spots
(16:49) Small, connected communities
(20:21) The value of a solitude practice
(24:58) Stages of the journey of faith
(29:19) Through the wall to growth
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This episode posted on March 4, 2026
Episode Transcript:
Ryan Dunn [00:00:01]:
Have you ever proverbially hit the wall? Maybe like mentally hit the wall or physically hit the wall, but what about spiritually? Well, that's what we're going to get into on this episode of Compass. Welcome back to Compass, finding spirituality in the everyday. I'm Reverend Ryan Dunn, host and producer for Compass. We're going to take a journey from being a nominal Christian to being a committed disciple, emphasizing the importance of community, spiritual disciplines, and authentic faith. Our guide for this journey is Reverend Roger Ross, author of Kinda Christian, who recommends some practical ways to deepen your relationship with God, understand the true meaning of discipleship, and learn how to navigate spiritual walls and crises. Reverend Roger Ross has served as a pastor in Texas, the British island of Guernsey, and in Illinois. He's a church planter and founder of the Humility Group. His book, Kind of Christian, offers a grace-filled path towards a deeper life in faith for anyone who's been stuck in spiritual neutrality or spiritually neutral.
Ryan Dunn [00:01:17]:
If conversations like this are helpful for your spiritual journey, we'd be incredibly grateful if you could take a moment to leave us a rating and/or a review. Your feedback not only helps us improve the show but also makes a huge difference in helping more listeners like you find us. So let's talk spiritual walls, experiences of glory, and understanding discipleship with Roger Ross. Reverend Roger Ross, thank you so much for joining us on the Compass Podcast. How goes it with your soul today?
Roger Ross [00:01:49]:
Thanks for asking, Ryan. I'm glad to be here. My soul's good today. I have had a lot of wonderful things happen in the last couple of days, but even deeper than that, I feel like I'm on a good track. I feel like I'm where I'm supposed to be in God's grander economy.
Ryan Dunn [00:02:05]:
Well, we're talking about a book that you've written called Kind of Christian, which takes us on a journey from being maybe nominally spiritual or nominally Christian into the pathway of discipleship. And a lot of times I think that we can conflate the word disciple and the idea of a church member, and you pull those out or separate them pretty well within the book. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Like, what What is the difference between a church member and a disciple?
Roger Ross [00:02:34]:
That's a great question. Actually, I think our world is just teeming with good people, frankly. They would check the Christian box if anybody asked, but they feel like something's missing. You know, many of them have done church. They know the routine. It just doesn't feel personal to them. So the biggest question that they ask in those places deep down where no one generally hears other than the Spirit of God is, is there more? And so whether we show up on Sundays or not, we wonder if there's something that can fill that emptiness inside. I mean, we may know the Christian story, we may even believe in Jesus, but we don't always know how to follow him.
Roger Ross [00:03:15]:
That's the difference.
Ryan Dunn [00:03:17]:
Okay.
Roger Ross [00:03:18]:
All right.
Ryan Dunn [00:03:19]:
So can you tell us some of the traits of a discipleship? Or of a disciple and how that might differentiate from the traits of a church member? I realize that there's quite a bit of overlap, but—
Roger Ross [00:03:31]:
Yeah, sure. There, there is some overlap. I mean, one of the things I talk about in the introduction of the book is what it generally means in Western Christianity to be a good member. It generally means that you hold a few beliefs about God and Jesus in your head. You attend, maybe occasionally. You may give. A little bit, and you may even serve a little bit, and that makes you a good member. And it's generally designed around what, what can help the institution to be able to continue forward.
Roger Ross [00:04:05]:
And there's nothing necessarily bad about that in and of itself, but it doesn't actually address the deeper issues in our lives, those places where we feel like there's a hole in our soul and there's nothing that's able to fill it. Those times when we feel like we, you know, we've said the words, we believe in Jesus, but we can't access his power. You know, one way to talk about this is to use one of my favorite phrases, which is genuine imitation leather. Right? Like, what is that? Right? It's not leather. What is it? Right? And there are a lot of people that kind of live their Christian life that way. It's not exactly Christian, but it's kind of Christian. All right. And one of the ways that you know that is when you get into a tight spot, just like genuine imitation leather, it cracks and breaks.
Roger Ross [00:05:02]:
Now they may bear the name of Jesus, but don't know how to access his power. Hmm.
Ryan Dunn [00:05:09]:
Tell me about accessing Jesus's power. I'm, I'm intrigued. Are there practices that help open that up? Is it a mindset?
Roger Ross [00:05:19]:
So it's a, I believe it's a combination of those things, but it might be helpful if I just gave a little bit of a genesis of the book because that I think will open us up to this really good question you just asked. In the last church I served, we kept having people show up that would say, like, we were generally using the mission statement of the United Methodist Church at the time to make disciples of Jesus Christ for the transformation of the world. And we would have people show up, first-time newcomers, guests, and they'd say, hey, like that whole transformation of the world thing, but what's a disciple? And we're like, well, everybody knows what a disciple is. You know, it's a little of this, it's a little of that. We know one when we see one. And that was spectacularly unhelpful. And it just kept happening over and over again. Unrelated people who would show up for the first time and they'd say, yeah, well, when you talk about a disciple, what is that? What's a disciple? And it got to the point, I mean, we realized that we couldn't answer it very well.
Roger Ross [00:06:30]:
And that became embarrassing. So I got the other pastors together and said, look, we got to come up with a better answer than this. We can't just say we know one when we see one. Come on. And how hard could this be? Let's just take 3 weeks and knock this thing out and then we'll have a answer. 8 months later, we came back with something that we thought describes what a real disciple of Jesus was like, because we had to, like, wrestle that out of our guts. You know, we had to go deep into scripture. We had to spend time in prayer.
Roger Ross [00:06:58]:
We had all kinds of discussions that went on for months before we could send something or actually, you know, kind of present something to our leadership and have them wrestle with a little for a little while and then have them say, yes, Yeah, this is it. This is what we understand to be a disciple in our context. And then we had to roll it out with the whole congregation and go through a sermon series and a study that was attached to that. And eventually we made that a part of our discipleship process in the church. And we came up with 3 kind of general characteristics of what a disciple looks like. First, a disciple loves God, according to Jesus. And a disciple launches community. They're in community with other people, and they initiate that.
Roger Ross [00:07:45]:
And then they also unleash compassion. And so broadly speaking, that's what a disciple looks like. Now, of course, it's hard to live as a disciple broadly. There's lots of specifics that are involved. And we realized that to drill down on that a little bit, there were actually 6 more specific marks of a disciple that all ended up starting with the word G. So we called them our G6 network. All right. And so here are the 6 Gs.
Roger Ross [00:08:23]:
They were glory, the glory of God, grace, giftedness, I'm sorry, group, growth, giftedness, and generosity. Now, those 6 Gs all had an inward experience to them and an outward expression. Now, that's good Wesleyan theology right there. Like, it's not just one or the other. It's not just about me and Jesus and all the wonderful things, ecstatic experiences I'm having in the Holy Spirit. It's also about how does that get lived out in your life? Wesley often talked about holiness of heart and life. And so that's where that comes from. And we called these people deeply devoted disciples.
Roger Ross [00:09:06]:
So that was what we considered to be life in 3D. Hmm.
Ryan Dunn [00:09:13]:
You know, what was missing in your 6 Gs, and this is not a critique by any means, it's more of a critique of the culture at large, was something about sin management. So I was talking with a friend a couple of weeks and he was talking about how, as he was raised in a tradition of faith, that the gospel to him was really about like the gospel of sin management. And so the mark of discipleship was how well you were able to really avoid sin. And I found your discussion of sin to be helpful and would probably be like really illuminating for him to read. Can you tell us a little bit about, well, first your definition of sin and then what it looks like for a disciple disciple to, in effect, be sinless?
Roger Ross [00:10:03]:
Well, that's a good question, whether a disciple can be sinless. But for me, you know, sin is just a total disregard of God and others. I mean, when we are intentionally disobeying the will of God in one way or another, whether it's by commission or omission, that's sin. But when we're also breaking relationship, not only with God, but with other people, that's sin too. And we can even break relationship with ourselves. We can even sin against ourselves. All right. And that's not the way God created us to live in this world.
Roger Ross [00:10:37]:
Sin's always some kind of life taker. It's a killer. It drains life away from us rather than bringing us into the life that is God, which is eternal. Right? So when we are living a life that is in blatant disregard to God and others and breaking relationship with God and others, it's going to be destructive to us and destructive to those who are around us.
Ryan Dunn [00:11:06]:
There are practices then that help us, I guess, restore this right relationship in community. I think when we think about the rhythm of faith at large, a lot of times it kind of hinges around maybe a Sunday morning event or this large body gathering. That's the central part of our community experience together. And you actually push for a different expression being the central part of our, I guess, our faith or discipleship journey together. Can you tell us a little bit about the small group experience, why that is so important in our path towards discipleship?
Roger Ross [00:11:50]:
Well, you know, when we get the early church, the first snapshot of the early church in Acts in the second chapter, you see that the earliest Christians, earliest followers of Jesus—they weren't called Christians at the time—the earliest followers of Jesus were people that met together in the temple courts, and then they met together in their homes. And you had this wonderful dual combination: temple courts, large group, and in their homes, small group. Because, you know, people back in the day did not have these palatial 2,000-square-foot homes, right? Like, if you had a 500-square-foot home, you probably had a pretty good-sized home. So you're not going to be able to hold a whole bunch of people in that size of a place. But people gathered together with glad and sincere hearts in their homes, eating together. And scripture says the Lord added to their number those who were being saved day by day. He doesn't say every Sunday. And I also didn't say every Wednesday night when you had your church programs.
Roger Ross [00:12:49]:
Like, this was a life-on-life, 24/7, 365 living of the gospel. And so if that's the case, then there must be some practices that we would be involved in that have not much to do necessarily with corporate worship. Corporate worship really is designed to be the outgrowth. That's the extra, that's the icing on the cake. That's not meant to be the main meal, right? So what is the main meal? Well, there are all kinds of spiritual disciplines, spiritual practices that can make the main meal. One of them is what we just talked about, is getting together in a group of other people where you can pull down the mask and say, look, I know this is the image that I project, but underneath it's really not that good. This is what I'm afraid of. This is what's keeping me up at night.
Roger Ross [00:13:46]:
This is the issue that I'm having with my wife or my kid. And I just, I just need to be real with you about what's happening in the lower regions of my own life. And that's when you have a chance to get into authentic discipleship because that's the real stuff of life. And I don't know about you, but I've run across what I could only call blind spots in my life, right? And then I realized, you know what, maybe I'm not the only one that has a blind spot. And it's become apparent to me that all of us kind of live with who we are right back here, right, right to your right or left ear, right in that spot that you're blind to. And if I wasn't looking into a camera right now, I wouldn't be able to see this, right? But you could. You could see what is a blind spot for me. And you could say, you know, Roger, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but there are some things that aren't actually lining up with who you say you want to be.
Roger Ross [00:14:52]:
And they're living right back here. They're out of your sight. I think they're in your blind spot. And if you did that in a way that was lovingly telling me the truth about myself, you would be helping me live into what it means to be a real follower of Jesus. And it turns out, Ryan, you have blind spots too. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. And there are things that I can see, and if I got to know you, if we were in a group over time, there would be things that I would be able to see in your life that you can't see yourself just yet.
Roger Ross [00:15:26]:
And if you were willing to open yourself up to that and invite that, I could say, well, Actually, yeah, there's one or two things I do see here, Ryan, that you might not be able to see yourself at the moment. And that's one of the beauties of Christian community, when we can get to that level of authenticity and vulnerability to be able to help us to actually live into who it is that God's called us to be.
Ryan Dunn [00:15:53]:
In your practice of parish ministry, how did you help people find those small connections, those small groups?
Roger Ross [00:16:00]:
Well, actually, I have been a big proponent of small groups for the vast majority of my adult life because I just had that experience early on from college, even a little bit in high school, but mostly from college on. I was shaped. I was transformed. I really sensed my call into ministry through a small group. There was one in particular that had a huge impact on my life, but there have been others along the way. And I've I've always found out more about who I really am in Christ in the context of a small group where I allowed them to get to know me and they allowed me to get to know them. So because that's been such a vital part of my own faith journey, I've always been a big proponent of that in the churches I've served. And so I would preach about it.
Roger Ross [00:16:49]:
All right. I would preach about the importance of being in little communities where you can know and be known. Where you can love and be loved, where you can celebrate and be celebrated. And then I would also choose people who I thought had the potential to be small group leaders and small group apprentice leaders, and then actually train them in that kind of work, encourage them to be inviting people to become in their small groups, but also talk about that from, you know, from the pulpit in the big room to say, here are some of our small group leaders. If you're not in a group yet, let me tell you what you're missing. And Let me encourage you to give this a try. And then, you know, from time to time, we literally have like sign-up times, you know, like, oh, we're gonna do small groups, like as a congregation, everybody that we can possibly get in a small group, we're gonna get in a small group for 6 weeks and just try it out. And my experience with that is when people get a taste of it, like the real deal, they don't wanna go back.
Roger Ross [00:17:52]:
Yeah.
Ryan Dunn [00:17:53]:
I want to hinge back to worship for a moment. Oftentimes when we talk about worship, we do imagine it being within the context of like the large group gathering. Again, happens on a Sunday morning in most of our communities. You define worship as really just being an encounter with God's presence. And so I'm wondering how, as we start talking about a life of faith that lives beyond that Sunday morning experience, how does worship go beyond that Sunday morning experience?
Roger Ross [00:18:23]:
Yeah, there are a lot of ways that that happens, but this really is the place that the glory of God comes into play. So when we enter into worship, we have the opportunity to experience the glory of God. And in my experience, whenever we experience God's presence, we encounter God's glory. And I don't know if our listeners are aware of this or not, but the word glory is used over 250 times in the scriptures. I mean, it's rampant throughout the scriptures. And it's often talking about this sense of power, of presence, of the weightiness, the kabod, that's what it's called in Hebrew, the kabod, the glory of God, the kabod of God. I love that phrase. And many of us have had an experience of that where God's come close, where all of a sudden that thin veil between what is eternal and what is temporal gets pulled back.
Roger Ross [00:19:23]:
Sometimes that happens at the birth of a child or at a funeral, or sometimes it happens in a time of great crisis. Sometimes it happens in a time of great beauty when you're just overwhelmed with the awe of beauty before you. And the presence of God draws close. And that doesn't necessarily happen every single Sunday in a worship service. Not that it can't, but it doesn't always. And it's not meant to only happen when you're together in a large group worship setting. In fact, I would suggest that it's as much as likely to happen outside, if not more so, than inside a large group worship experience. And there are ways that we can cultivate that through daily solitude, through an ongoing conversation with God, and through a daily review of the way the presence of God has drawn near or been distant to us over the course of our past day.
Roger Ross [00:20:21]:
And so those are the three practices I talk about in some detail under the glory chapter. But I'll just talk about that first one to begin with, just to give a little taste. I mean, what would it be like if you were to set your watch for 5 minutes and you found a quiet place, you would not be disturbed, everything else is turned off, and you just sat alone with God for 5 minutes. Now, you can do almost anything for 5 minutes, but to actually intentionally have solitude with God for 5 minutes, and you may need to pick a word or phrase to say silently to yourself over and over again to keep you focused, because we all have that challenge. I certainly do. I sit down quiet for a while, my mind goes off in a thousand different directions. And so So one of the ways that I use a, you know, kind of a toy, so to speak, to give my mind something to play with is to pick up a word or phrase and just say it over and over again. For instance, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.
Roger Ross [00:21:34]:
I just say that silently to myself to center myself and keep my focus there when my thoughts start going off in some other direction. To bring them right back to Jesus. And to do that for just 5 minutes gives you a chance to actually be in the presence of God instead of trying to do something for God. And when we put ourselves in a position where we're receptive and we're just being, we're not, you know, we were created to be human beings, right? Not human doings. So when we place ourselves in a position where we can be with God, we're much more likely to be in a spot where we could experience God's glory.
Ryan Dunn [00:22:19]:
Has there been a time when you've been surprised by God's presence or God's glory or by a moment of worship?
Roger Ross [00:22:28]:
More times than I could count. Yeah, absolutely. Because you can't control that. God is free. So God God chooses to show up in our lives. But I will say, when you practice these disciplines that I've just mentioned and others, you put yourself in a position where you're more likely to be present to the presence. Right? And become aware of those times when God is showing up that previously may have just gone right by. I'm like, I, you know, I have these kinds of moments all the time.
Roger Ross [00:23:02]:
I have these moments at the grocery store. This morning I was in a number of coaching calls with people, and there were moments where the glory of God entered into the conversation. Didn't necessarily last for the entire time, but there were moments when it's like, oh, there's a fullness there. There's a weightiness there. There's some of the glory. And sometimes you could sense yourself starting to tear up, or the other person that you're talking to starts to tear up. I mean, we have those natural human emotional actions when the glory of God comes close.
Ryan Dunn [00:23:40]:
Have you run any marathons lately? I have not.
Roger Ross [00:23:44]:
So you're referencing something I talk about in the growth chapter. I did back in the day, I think it was 2009, I ran the Chicago Marathon for the first and only time. And so I was a one and done with regard to that. I did a half marathon after that, 6 months later. You're supposed to do that in the opposite order, but I would've left.
Ryan Dunn [00:24:03]:
You would go big, right? Yeah.
Roger Ross [00:24:06]:
Go big or go home. And so I, I did both. So I went big and then I went home. But that was, that was a great experience. I learned a lot. I learned a lot about what you can do with your human body in training over time. And I also learned a lot about how to live with sustained pain while you're exercising because that's, that's what it's like to run a marathon.
Ryan Dunn [00:24:30]:
Yeah, well, and you talk about hitting the wall, that point in which physically, like, your body just stops responding. It's out of energy and it can't do anymore. Sometimes they call it bonking. And you're able to tie that together with the fact that some of us in the course of our lives, we hit the wall spiritually. And so I'm wondering if you can describe for us a little bit some of the symptoms of maybe hitting the wall spiritually and then how we might push through those.
Roger Ross [00:24:58]:
Yeah, you know, we're on a faith journey. All of us are on a faith journey and we're all someplace on that journey. And some of us are in stage 1 where either we haven't yet or we're beginning to recognize God. And that recognition stage often happens when we have some kind of trouble happens in our life and we sense a need, or we're experiencing something that's so beautiful and we're just awestruck. And we realize, oh, there's something greater in this universe than just me or just us. And that's the beginning. That's the kind of the barest first part of a journey, which then leads us, if we continue on that journey, leads us into a real relationship with God through his son Jesus. And then at that point, we're like newborn spiritual babies, right? So now we're starting like a whole different part of this journey where we're getting into the life of discipleship and we're beginning to learn what it means to do things that are spiritual disciplines, learning about how to pray, learning about how to read scripture and apply it to our lives, learning about how to have solitude with God, as I mentioned before, all those kinds of things.
Roger Ross [00:26:13]:
That leads us to a third stage, which is the more, more of an outward stage, you know, where you're going out to serve and care for and help others. And it's a very productive part of the journey, right? And when you're in that spot and you're practicing spiritual disciplines and you're being very productive and you're serving for others, or there's fruit that's being born, you think, well, this is like great. This is how it's all supposed to work. This is wonderful. And then you hit the wall. It's very much like when you're running a marathon. You're running along and all of a sudden, Boom. Usually it's like mile 18 to 20, somewhere in there.
Roger Ross [00:26:54]:
And the, uh, the energy that's been stored in your legs that you've been working on and building up over the course of months, if not years, in preparation and in your training is finally gone. All the glycogen is gone. And now you're just gutting it out. Uh, 'cause the problem, of course, with that is if you get to mile 18, uh, you still have 8.2 miles to go in a marathon. Right. Yeah. Right. So now it's like, okay, how am I going to push through the wall to actually finish the race? And this is what happens in our spiritual lives.
Roger Ross [00:27:30]:
We'll be going along and things will be going great. And all of a sudden we hit a wall. Now, wall generally is when some kind of crisis happens. You know, when a parent is in a car accident and dies unexpectedly. When the phone rings the wrong way and you pick it up and the doctor says, well, I'm sorry, it's cancer. Or your spouse says, hey, it's been great, but I'm out. Or, all of a sudden your child has gotten into so much trouble that now she or he is going to prison. Or maybe you've had a bankruptcy or you've lost your job or some kind of sudden crisis hits your life in a way that you didn't see coming.
Roger Ross [00:28:08]:
And suddenly life doesn't make sense anymore. And God seems immensely distant, like God has left the room. And apparently God has left the universe. It feels like your prayers are bouncing off the wall. You're not getting through. All this richness in your spiritual life that you were experiencing previously, it just feels like dust and ashes in your mouth. And you're like, my gosh, was I just fooling myself? Like, was this thing just a hoax and I somehow got sucked into it? Like, what happened here? And what happened is you just hit the wall. And that wall is that place where your will is now struggling with God's will.
Roger Ross [00:28:51]:
You're in a wrestling match. For the first time on a much deeper level in your life, you're being invited to truly surrender the deeper things in your life to God. And there are a lot of people that just aren't too keen on that whole idea. Yeah. Right? So they hit the wall. Oftentimes what people do, I've had this experience in my own life, they hit the wall and they just bounce off. It's like, well, I'm not doing that anymore. That was painful.
Roger Ross [00:29:19]:
Like, I'm smarter enough to at least not do that again. I'm backing off of that. And sometimes they'll go back into stage 1 or stage 2 or even into stage 3 and try to recreate what they had before, but it's not the same. And they realize, I'm going to have to do something in this wrestling match with God. Just like Jacob at Peniel, I'm going to have to wrestle with God through the night. And what most of us don't realize is that the wall is really a door in disguise. It's an opportunity to go through the wall to the other side where there is a deeper, richer, more transformative relationship with God than you could ever have on the first side of the wall. But to go through the wall is painful and it deconstruct some things in your life, perhaps, that you had all figured out and you knew exactly the way it was all supposed to work until that crisis came.
Roger Ross [00:30:20]:
And God really wants to invite us to surrender some of the deeper things in our lives. Not that we would completely give up who we are or who God made us to be, but we would surrender those things into God's hands so he could give them back to us in a different form. And now instead of us kind of, you know, thinking it's pretty great to have God on my side, now we're on God's side. Right? And so Jesus is not around to help me be a success. Now I'm around to help Jesus be a success. And it's a completely different approach to a relationship with God and living as a follower of Jesus. Yeah. I'll tell you, Ryan, I wish to God someone would have explained this to me about 30 years ago.
Roger Ross [00:31:09]:
Right. Because I've been through several walls in my life, and probably I'm going to go through some more before it's in, before the whole thing's over. Because walls are meant to purify us, to deepen us, to winnow out the dead branches in our lives so that we can grow strong and true. In the life that God has created for us.
Ryan Dunn [00:31:34]:
Amen. That is a word of strength to take us out, Roger. For those who are looking to maybe connect with you a little bit more, you mentioned The Humility Group. Is that a good website to check out more of your work? It is.
Roger Ross [00:31:48]:
That's the best place to go, thehumilitygroup.org. I have the privilege of working with lots of pastors and church leadership teams and some conferences and districts and the like, just to really help spiritual leaders live grace-filled lives that can transform the world. I've spent most of my life as a pastor and I love pastors. I love to see the church thrive. I love to see pastors thrive. And it's my privilege that I get to do that every day.
Ryan Dunn [00:32:18]:
Well, once again, thanks for taking the time to talk with us, for offering your experience. My pleasure, Ryan.
Roger Ross [00:32:24]:
Thanks for having me on.
Ryan Dunn [00:32:26]:
All right, friend, thank you for being a part of our Compass community. We look forward to continuing to explore spirituality in the everyday with you. You might want to listen to another episode of Compass. I recommend it. And if you liked this episode, then I recommend episode number 173, Breaking the Evangelism Stereotype with Stephanie Moore Hand. Or you can do a deeper dive into contemplative practices with episode number 159. That's How a 500-Year-Old Practice Can Help Calm Modern Anxiety. And again, while you're listening, leave a rating and/or review.
Ryan Dunn [00:33:05]:
The Compass Podcast is brought to you by United Methodist Communications. And that's all for this week. We'll be back with a new episode in 2 weeks' time. I'll chat at you then. Peace.
